Today on the Book Launch Show we have a special conversation between Valerie and Tim, recorded live in Nashville at the Story Grid Conference and in fitting style they will be talking about attending events and how to make the most of them as an author! There are a lot of different ways to approach attending an event, as a guest, participant or a speaker for instance. Tim gives us the low down on his experiences and the lessons he has learned over the years, arguing that the value that conferences offer is to meet like-minded friends and associates. The networking possibilities of an author or writing events are not going to be found elsewhere, so making the most of the crowd that is gathered for any particular period of time is so worth it in furthering your art and career. In the conversation, we cover the strategy with which to go into the event, the preparation and scheduling beforehand, and how to approach speakers and other attendees in the best way possible. For all this and a whole lot more, listen in!
Key Points From This Episode:
- Weighing conference appearances against podcasting.
- The things to actually focus on at conferences and workshops.
- What you should do to prepare for an event.
- The secret value of conferences and groupings of authors.
- The best way to get to meet speakers.
- Offering value and asking questions.
- Deciding which conference to attend based on your needs.
- Practicing skills for meeting people, pitching and public speaking.
- How much a network of friends and peers can help you on new projects.
- And much more!
Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode:
Tim Grahl — https://booklaunch.com/
Tim on Twitter — https://twitter.com/timgrahl
Valerie Francis — https://valeriefrancis.ca/
Valerie on Twitter — https://twitter.com/valerie_francis
The Story Grid Editor Roundtable Podcast — https://valeriefrancis.ca/podcast/
Running Down a Dream — https://www.amazon.com/Running-Down-Dream-Winning-Creative/dp/1936891557
Running Down a Dream Podcast — https://www.runningdownadream.com/podcast
Hugh Howey — http://www.hughhowey.com
Stephen King — https://www.stephenking.com
SXSW — https://www.sxsw.com
[0:00:00.5] TG: Hello and welcome to the Book Launch Show. My name is Tim Grahl. In this episode, Valerie and I discuss what I think is one of the most powerful things that you can do to connect with influencers and build your platforms. That is to go to live events and know really how to take advantage of them.
I’ve never traveled a ton for conferences, usually once or twice a year. What I did do really well was take advantage of the opportunity that the conferences give you. A lot of people make two mistakes when it comes to going to live events.
The first is that they just hang out with their friends. The second is that they think that they’re there to learn from the workshops and keynotes and all of that. I dive into that with Valerie in this episode and walk her through my view on conferences and how you can use those to really take advantage of the fact that so many people, so many like-minded people are together in one place. This was also the first episode that Valerie and I recorded in person, so that was fun as well.
Just a couple things that you may not know about, or may want to know about. The first is that we do have a lot of highly trained book launch coaches that are ready and willing to work with you to build your platform, run your book launch, help you think through your marketing and that is all at booklaunch.com/coaching.
These are people that I directly worked with to train. They’ve gone through every training I’ve ever done and they are highly skilled in helping you out. If you’re looking for some help on your next book launch, or to help you figure out what to do with your platform, I highly recommend you check that out.
Also, I have started another podcast called Running Down a Dream. It’s based on my last book called Running Down a Dream. It’s all about interviews with people that are doing interesting work and trying to track down what it is that they should be doing and hearing their stories about what they’ve learned along the way.
I think you’ll really like it. It’s on all the different platforms. Wherever you’re listening to this podcast, it’s available there. It’s the Running Down a Dream Podcast. I highly recommend you check it out.
This podcast is all about marketing, launching your book. If you’re an author and you have a book, book coming out, book already out, if you’re doing something special, you’re doing something that most people are afraid to do in my opinion. They’re actually going after that thing that they want. Everybody says they want to write a book. You’ve actually done it, you’re actually doing it. What that means is that you have a dream that you’re trying to accomplish. You have this idea of the writer you want to be, the life you want to live, the artist you want to be.
I wrote my book Running Down a Dream, Your Roadmap To Winning Creative Battles for people just like you. Based on my last decade of overcoming my creative battles of being stuck in the mud, stuck feeling like I’m always going to be a failure, stuck feeling this thing that I want is stupid and never going to happen. I wrote this book to share the true journey of what this looks like. A lot of self-help books, a lot of books about creativity, they share, “Oh, well it was really hard and then look at all the awesome stuff I learned.”
This book is different. It will walk you through what I think the real story of running down a dream really, really looks like. I put everything in there and on top of that, I put the tools I learned along the way. If you know anything about me and my work, I can’t help but be practical. I took that story of running down my dream, of chasing what I wanted in life, of overcoming creative battles and I broke it down into really practical tools that you can apply to overcome your own creative demons.
Running Down a Dream is out now. It’s at Amazon and all the other different places that you can buy books. It’s available audiobook, e-book and paperback. Check it out, buy a copy, share one with a friend and it’s a great way to support this show. Thanks.
[INTRO]
[0:04:35.0] ANNOUNCER: Welcome to the Book Launch Podcast, helping authors launch and market their books.
[EPISODE]
[0:04:40.9] VF: We’re here in Nashville.
[0:04:41.7] TG: Here in Nashville, face to face.
[0:04:43.9] VF: Face to face in the same time zone at last.
[0:04:47.0] TG: I know. That 30-minute off thing would drive me insane that you have in – is it Newfoundland?
[0:04:52.1] VF: Newfoundland.
[0:04:53.2] TG: Newfoundland.
[0:04:54.3] VF: Rhymes with understand. Well, see to us everyone else is 30 minutes off.
[0:05:01.2] TG: Yeah, but you know that’s not true, because you’re the only time zone that’s on a 30-minute.
[0:05:06.6] VF: We’re special. What can I say? We are special.
[0:05:08.5] TG: Yeah, that’s right.
[0:05:10.2] VF: Because we’re here in Nashville for the Story Grid Certified Editor Training, I thought what might be fun to talk about since I clearly have done no homework. This is like, I got on a plane after our last conversation and I’ve been flat out ever since. I thought it might be fun to talk about marketing yourself at a live event. Because writers are going to show up to these things either as an attendee, or as a presenter, right? They’re two very different functions. It’s sometimes really hard to know how to leverage those activities to develop a fan base.
[0:05:51.4] TG: Right. There’s a couple different ways to think about it. One is going to conferences is a – can be an inefficient way to promote yourself, because if you’re thinking like, “Well, if I get on a panel to speak to a room of maybe 40 people and even if I convert half of those to be fans, I now flew across the country, drove somewhere, bought a ticket, got a hotel room to speak to 20 people.” When you’re on a podcast, you’re going to talk to hundreds or thousands of people at a time.
Meeting people in person is different. Anytime people meet you in person, they’re much more likely to be a long-term fan, but it’s an inefficient way to get in front of a lot of people. I was working with Hugh Howey when he was on the road half the year going to every Writers Conference.
I would say that that is one of the reasons so many people fell in love with him was because so many people got to meet him. He’s a very warm and caring person, but unless you’re able to just go, go, go, go, go, it’s just a tough way to do marketing.
When I think of live events, I think the most effective thing is not so much finding new readers as connecting with other influencers. The thing about these conferences is they bring together influencers, so other authors, agents, people in publishing, people with their own followings.
A lot of times the conferences, the way they find people to speak on the panels or to do the keynotes is looking at who’s popular, who has social-media followings, who has popular blogs, because the conference organizers know that that means they’ll have a draw of people.
What I do when I go to conferences is I try to connect with everybody that’s speaking. I try to find out ahead of time who’s there that’s an influencer. Then I just look at ways that how can I be a good hang while I’m there.
[0:07:58.2] VF: A good what?
[0:07:59.6] TG: A good hang. Like I want to hang out with –
[0:08:00.7] VF: H-A-N-G. Okay.
[0:08:01.8] TG: H-A-N-G. Right. I got that from a friend of mine in the music industry and we’re talking about – he was talking about when you’re in a band, or you’re recording or whatever, it’s a high-stress situation. You guys are on the road together. You’re traveling together. They will pick somebody who’s a good hang, who’s nice, who’s funny, who’s fun to be around over a better musician, because they’re in such tight quarters.
I think about that now when I go to conferences, of I’m not there to close a deal of any sort, right? I’m not trying to get them to have me on their podcast, or get them to help promote my book. What I’m there is to make friends with people that are influencers. We’ll get into some specifics, but that’s the goal is I will think, “Okay, who is there that I can connect with that will help me over a long period of time?”
If I happen to get a chance to promote my books, but especially if you’re not speaking on a workshop, if you’re not speaking in any capacity, it’s going to be really hard to find new readers. A lot of these writers, workshops, or writers conferences they’re small, it’s like a 100 people, or 200 people spread out through the whole thing. Does that make sense so far?
[0:09:19.4] VF: Yes. You want to have a strategy going into the event and do some research and planning and preparation before you ever get on the plane to go there.
[0:09:29.2] TG: Exactly. My thing is I should have a packed schedule of meetings before my plane ever takes off. If I am say going to a conference two months from now, I will do a few things to research. I will look at who’s speaking, look at every panel and make a list of everybody that I would potentially want to meet.
Then I email the conference organizers and say, “Hey, I’m looking to meet with anybody who’s writes this type, or anybody in publishing, or anybody who’s doing whatever other authors that are going to be there. Who do you think I should try to connect with?” A lot of times, they’ll just send you names.
Then that becomes my hit list. Then what I do is I start reaching out to each of those people trying to see if I can set up a meeting ahead of time. I’ll try to set up breakfast before the day starts, a coffee, lunch break, take them out for drinks later. I want to pack my schedule with meetings with people ahead of time.
What’s really great about conferences is that people are usually there to be at the event. A lot of times if you try to meet with somebody in their hometown or something, they’re busy. They have a life, they have their family, they have their schedule, so taking time out of their day to meet with you is a big ask. When they’re on the road – they’re not home, so when the conference is over for the day, they don’t have anything going on. Yeah, you buy me dinner. That’s fine.
I try to meet with — set meetings ahead of time and I will always give up going to the conference, like the workshop or whatever in exchange for a meeting. Because the powerful thing of the event is not necessarily what you can learn in the workshops. I mean, that can be valuable, it’s the fact that somebody else has done all the work to bring all these people together.
I’ll try to get a hold of them any way I can. I’ll e-mail them. I’ll reach out to them on LinkedIn. I’ll direct message them on Twitter. I’ll direct message them on Instagram just to try to, “Hey, I’m going to this conference. I would love to meet you. I’d love to buy you drinks or buy you a meal.” I usually pitch out, “Hey, what about Tuesday at lunch? I’d love to buy you lunch.” They might say, “Well, no. But we could grab coffee before,” something like that.
The first line of defense is who’s going to be there that’s an influencer and then trying to contact them before the event and set up the meeting. Then my calendar, I just put it on my calendar, so that I don’t forget one. Then, let’s say you had 20 people and you’ve got meetings set with eight of them, well now my job is to meet those other 12 while we’re on the site. I have some really specific ways to do that.
I’ve gone as far as putting their names on in a file and then going to their website and copying their picture in under their name and studying that on the plane, because I’ve literally been walking down the hallway and recognize somebody and stopped them and be like, “Hey,” and we’ll talk about how to have the conversation.
I’ll stop them and just introduce myself and then even if I just give one minute with them, when I follow up in two weeks once we’re home, I’ll be like, “Hey, I met you in the hallway,” and they’ll probably remember me, or at least remember meeting somebody.
The other thing that I do is if there’s somebody speaking that I cannot get a hold of that I really want to meet, this works really well. I go to their event, or their talk, or their workshop, or whatever. Then as soon as it’s over, I leave, right? I don’t want to be in the line of 10 people that are waiting to meet them after their talk, because then you’re just a blur. They’ll never remember you.
What I do is I leave and then I tweeted them. I say @ the speaker’s name. “Hey, just went to your workshop. Just went to your talk. Really loved it. I had to leave afterwards. Is there somewhere I can meet up with you for five minutes?” Because the first thing that people do after they talk, after they do their talk is they get on Twitter to see what everybody thought about their talk, because everybody’s printing at and quoting them while they’re talking, that kind of thing.
This works really, really well. I’ve gotten like – so many speakers would be like, “Yeah, I’m going to be here. I’m going to be at this lounge, or I’m going to this bar afterwards if you want to come and meet me.” I’ve ended up hanging out, drinking with a really well-known person for an hour because I just met up with them at the bar. Anything like that where I can just meet people, that is the goal. Then I follow up on that relationship later.
[0:14:04.7] VF: Is that more effective than hanging around in the room after and trying to talk to the speaker?
[0:14:10.2] TG: Yeah. Because if you’re in the line with 10 people, you’re just going to be a blur. They’re not going to remember – What you’re trying to do is establish some relationship that you can follow up with later. They have to remember you. I’ve been in that situation where people wait to talk to me after I talk and I couldn’t take any of the mountain of lineup five minutes after it’s over, because it’s just like this blur of people.
Plus, you feel this pressure to go quick because the person behind you is waiting. By doing where you tweeted them and asked them if they’ll be anywhere, you can meet up with them five minutes later, they’ll tell you where they’re going to be for an extended period of time, and especially at a conference they’re probably at a lounge, or at a party, or as somewhere that you can meet up with them, where they’ll be like, “Hey, tomorrow morning I’m going to be here before the conference starts. You should just come see me there.” I’ve gotten again, then you get extended time with them so they’ll remember you later.
Does that make sense?
[0:15:17.5] VF: Yeah. Do you have in your mind, I want to talk to this person about this topic, or do you – how do you make that connection with them when you approach someone cold who’s never met you?
[0:15:30.8] TG: The goal is to make a new friend, right? That’s the only goal in the moment. You never want to try to pitch them on the spot, try to get on their podcast on the spot, or try to talk about how – The only business I would talk with them is how I could potentially help them, but I’m not trying to get them to help me. What I usually do is I open with a couple things. The first one is I open with talking about how I’m a fan of theirs of some way. “Hey, I really love your blog.”
I don’t gush, like I don’t make it weird, but I want them to know I’m a fan of theirs. Then I always have a question. A long time ago, I used to get really nervous in networking situations where it’s like, you’re supposed to network. I’m like, “I never know what to say. I never know.” Finally, a friend of mine that was really good at it, he’s like, “Networking is easy.” He’s like, “You ask a person their name, you ask what they do and then you just keep asking follow-up questions.” He goes, “The more that they talk, the more they will like you.”
My goal is to give that person that I’m meeting to just talk. It might be, “Hey, I really like your podcast. I really liked what you said and two episodes ago with such and such guest about this topic. What do you think about this?” Just ask an open-ended questions and get them talking. Then just say things like, “Hey, what do you work?” Like, “Are you working on a book right now? What are you working on?” Or, “What are you reading right now that you really like?” Try to find something that you guys can have a conversation about. Because this is all long-term play stuff. I’d rather be friends with them, so that I can email them in a few weeks and, “Hey, it was really great to meet you.” Follow up on something you had talked about, or if you had offered to help them in some way, you can follow up and say, “Hey, remember I was going to help you with your website, with this, or something like that, or hey, I was going to connect you to my cover designer. Do you want me to do that now?”
That you become the helpful one and you become the person that is a good pain, because people want to help people that they’re friends with. Maybe I could talk to somebody into having me on their podcast on the spot, but if we become friends, now they’re going to help me forever. That’s what I’ve done at conferences is just who can I meet, who can I hang out with, that stuff.
[0:17:55.5] VF: How do you figure out which conferences to go to?
[0:17:58.7] TG: I’ve never gone to that many conferences. I probably don’t know how to answer that question really, because I’ve just always gone to conferences that I wanted to go to and then try to connect with people while I was there. I do think the bigger the better, as far as like, if you go to a conference that only has a 100 people, everybody’s trying to talk to the same people.
Or if you go to a bigger conference that has 500, or a 1,000 people, then it’s much more easier to get some of the speaker’s time, because it’s spread out through everybody. Also, you just have more likelihood to meet interesting people.
Then I would say don’t always feel you have to stick to your people. If you’re a writer, don’t always just go to writing conferences. Go to other creative conferences. Go to technology conferences, something where maybe tangential to what you do. Don’t just go to writers conferences, go to publishing conferences, where you’ll meet other people in the industry and get to know them.
One conference I go to, I met several agents there, even though it had nothing to do with publishing. They were there scouting the speakers and I met them as a result. I don’t know. I try to mix. I try not to do things like that purely for work, because I want to have fun while I’m there. I want to meet people that I’m interested in meeting. I try to look at it as would I be interested in going to this? Then I’ll go.
[0:19:27.7] VF: Is one of the things that you do then, you look at the speaker’s list and who will be there? I mean, the topic of this conference has to be interesting. I’m working on a thriller now, so if I want to go to thriller fest, obviously that would be me because the genre is similar, but then I could also look at who is speaking.
[0:19:46.7] TG: Yeah. I would try to make sure it’s not Stephen King speaking. I’ve seen the conference’s where the speakers are so well-known that they are probably flying in for their talk and immediately leaving. They’re not going to be hanging out, because they’ll be mobbed with people.
There’s this, again at my – what I usually tell people is you shouldn’t be going after the A-listers, you should be going after the B and C-listers. Those are the conference’s I try to go to, because those are the conferences where the speakers will hang out for the whole conference, because they still want to be around people.
Where if you get people that are too famous, they will literally fly in, do their talk and then go to the airport to catch their flight out. It misses the opportunities. I like to just shoot one level down from that. You just have a better chance of meeting people that you can actually connect with.
[0:20:44.3] VF: What if you’re at an event, like I’m just thinking, this week right now, I am here as a Story Grid editor and everyone who’s here is here to train as an editor. The questions that people are asking me are about editing, but also about how I’m applying that process to my own writing. The only time I’m talking about my writing is when someone specifically asks me about it.
[0:21:13.6] TG: Yeah. Well, this is technically a bad conference for you to go to to promote your writing. This would not be a place that I recommend you come as a writer.
[0:21:24.0] VF: Right, because this is for editors, so it’s not –
[0:21:25.5] TG: Yeah. It’s super small. There’s only 50 of us here, or 40 of us here. On that side, it’s a bad use of your time from the writing perspective.
[0:21:36.2] VF: The same would apply for, I would think, a lot of local writing events.
[0:21:43.2] TG: Yeah.
[0:21:44.3] VF: Right. I mean, mine anyway, in my hometown it’s very small.
[0:21:48.7] TG: Right. I’m speaking at a writers event locally in a few weeks that’s going to be 15 people. I just do that because it’s nice to be around people when I sit alone in my office all the time. I don’t look at it as an actual way to sell books.
[0:22:07.2] VF: Right. It’s about relationship building and getting to know people in the same industry that you’re in.
[0:22:12.4] TG: Sure. I mean, honestly for me, the only reason to do this is it’s fun. I like speaking. There’s low pressure. I’m being helpful to the people in my community. For me, it’s an ego thing too of it’s – I get to be the guy of the night with this small group of people and that just feels good and I get to give my book to everybody and they’ll be so happy to get my book.
Again, 99% my work is sitting alone in my office. It’s nice to have times where – but I do it with my eyes open. I don’t think this is actually going to help me grow my platform, or the people there I don’t think are well-known writers. Even if I’m probably going to give them books, but even if not, the most I’m going to sell is 12 books, right? I do it for fun, not because I think it’s actually going to help long-term.
[0:23:13.6] VF: It’s a really good place to practice the skill too, right? Of introducing yourself to someone you’ve never met?
[0:23:18.9] TG: Yeah, oh sure. Yeah, and I forget that part because I’ve been doing this long enough, the idea of me nervous about this is I don’t even consider. I won’t even think about what I’m going to speak about until an hour before, because I know I’m good enough and have an idea of what I’m going to do that I can just wing it and it’ll be fine.
Yes. If you are wanting to get used to speaking, or wanting to get used to share about your book, or want to try out your pitch on people, like doing it in a group of 10 that’s local is much better. If you’re going to be on a panel at a conference and there might be 50 people in the room and you’re terrified, doing it a couple times with the smaller group of people is a good idea. From that standpoint, but if we’re talking about purely efficient ways to market your book, it’s not going to do that.
Does that make sense?
[0:24:09.8] VF: It does. If I’m hearing you properly, when it comes to conferences or live events, let me do them if you – I’m an extrovert, so that appeals to me, right? To get out and mix and mingle with people, but know why you’re going there.
[0:24:29.2] TG: Yes. When I would go to conferences, I would think, “Okay, I’m here to work. I’m here to meet people,” so I sober, I buy the meals, I’m like, da, da, da, da, da. Then at 9:00 at night, I go meet up with my friends and then we’ll drink and have a good time for a couple hours before I go back to the hotel. I have fun while I’m there, but I also am like, I’m here to work. I look at it as my job. I’m here to work. I’m here to connect with people.
Again, I think I’ve talked about it before, once I’m there, once I’m there and I’m with the people, I just act normal. I’m not like, I don’t have an agenda, I’m not working. If I have a choice between going to breakfast with my friends, because that’ll be comfortable and taking this offer to breakfast that I’m really nervous and it’s uncomfortable, but I’m going to do it anyway, I’ll do that over hanging out with my friends.
A lot of people go to these conferences and they just moving groups of their – the three people they came with and they never meet anybody, which is the whole — you can learn stuff at conferences, but you can also learn stuff taking online courses and reading books. The real power of an event is that somebody else, the event promoter has done a lot of work to bring together this group of people and you can take advantage of that for the $200 entrance fee.
[0:25:57.2] VF: Certain events lend themselves to networking more than others. Well, at a Story Grid event, I’m just talking about editing all the time. When I did in the Key Story Seminar and the Genre Week, I was there as a student and I hardly spoke to anybody. As extroverted as I am, when it was break time I needed to get away to calm — because he’s giving so much information. I needed to go by myself to unwind a little bit before we went back in for another three hours of stuff being shoveled into my head.
[0:26:32.5] TG: See, if I was at that event and I was in your position, so one of the things I did with my buddy Todd Sattersten at SXSW every year is we would – because South by Southwest, I haven’t been there in years, but I went every year for many years. It’s not a publishing event. Todd and I are in publishing, and so we would host the books and beer. We would just pick a bar and we would invite everybody we knew that we knew, or we came in contact with, we would do it three or four days into the event and we just carried around postcards that said, “Books and Beer,” and it had the bar and the place and the time and it’s like, the first two beers are on us or something like that.
Then we would just hand those out to people, so that we would bring together a group of people that we wanted to meet, which were people in publishing and we would get to host it, so we’d be the heroes of the event. We got to meet all these people and every once a while we’d have a semi-famous person show up, because they heard there was something in publishing going on and they were an author. They would show up to that. It was good for us, because we hosted the event and all that stuff.
In your case, what I would probably do at that thing is host something like that. It probably ended at 5:00 or something. Say the third night of the event, “Hey, at 8:00 three blocks away I’m going to be at this bar. I’m buying the first round for everybody that shows up,” so that you can at least walk away meeting the 10 or 15 people that came for a beer.
The whole thing would cost you a 150 bucks and you would walk away with 15 people that liked Valerie, because you bought them a beer and we’re a good hang. You know what I mean?
[0:28:17.4] VF: Yeah, to build relationships and to build friendships because you never know what may come of it down the road. It might be six months, it might be six years, you don’t know.
[0:28:27.1] TG: Yeah, it’s amazing like we talk a lot about building the e-mail list and building your platform, but a big part of the platform is your friend network, your influencer network. It’s who of you become friends with over a long period of time. Once you do that for long enough, because again, I’ve been doing this now for over 10 years, every city I go to, I know somebody in it.
I can get together with somebody. Anytime I start something new, I have people that I can call to get advice, to help me promote it, to give me feedback, to give me referrals to people I need. That group of people is really powerful and we talk about this stuff in a very – I’m talking about this in almost a clinical way, but I look at it as I’m just becoming friends with people that are interested in the same thing I’m interested in.
I’m putting myself in a situation where the people I’m going to become friends with will probably also be able to help me with my career. Not hanging out down at the local bar, where I’m just going to meet random people, like I put myself in a situation where I’m going to be at this conference with this group of people and then I’m just a normal person hanging out and getting to know people. Again, some of those people I met at conferences that I bought a beer for are now still some of my best friends and help me anytime I have something new.
[0:29:55.4] VF: When it comes to live events, the best way to approach it is to go – well, to learn if you if that’s part of what you want to do, but go with the intention of just meeting other people in your industry and getting to know people in your industry, rather than trying to sell them something, right?
[0:30:16.3] TG: Yeah. I just feel with these things, the most valuable thing about a conference is that somebody else has worked really hard to bring a lot of interesting people together, both the speakers and the people to see the speakers. It will be the only time in history that that group of people is together.
What can you do to take advantage of this one moment in history where this group of people is together? Because after this weekend, everybody’s going to disperse and you have to wait till next year and it won’t be the same group of people. I especially think about that with meeting speakers at the conferences.
When I met Hugh Howey, he was at a conference an hour and a half from my house and I bought him lunch. Then he hired me and we worked together for a really long time. Having him as a client was a really great way for me to get referrals to other people that loved Hugh Howey.
It was the same thing. It’s like, there was a conference an hour and a half from – it was a small writers conference. I saw Hugh Howey. I made him drive just to buy him lunch.
[0:31:19.9] VF: Cool. Okay. That works for me.
[0:31:23.8] TG: Easy peasy.
[0:31:25.3] VF: This conference is just about done. One more day.
[0:31:27.7] TG: Yes. One more day.
[0:31:28.8] VF: We can all go home.
[0:31:30.5] TG: Yeah. I can take a nap.
[0:31:33.2] VF: We’ll meet again next week, the same place, same time, different time zones.
[0:31:37.4] TG: As normal.
[0:31:39.1] VF: All right, we’ll see you next week.
[0:31:39.8] TG: All right.
[END OF EPISODE]
[0:31:41.7] TG: Thanks for listening to this episode of the Book Launch Show. For all the past episodes, the show notes, or to connect with me, you can go to booklaunchshow.com. I have dozens of free book marketing resources and articles that you can access at my website booklaunch.com.
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[END]
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