Today on the Book Launch Show we are talking about doubling and tripling the rewards you can reap from the work you put in. Smart creatives, business owners and online professionals always look like they are doing more work than is humanly possible, which is usually because they get more mileage out of their initial efforts. This means a little re-contextualizing, recutting, resending and networking! With just minimal extra time, you can take what you have already done and use it to your extended benefit. We are exploring this idea through Valerie’s experiments with her email list and website and Tim offers a bunch of suggestions of ways that she can double down on her bookclub, author updates and possible affiliate links. We also get into connecting and promotion, SEO, pop ups and more. So join us today on the Book Launch Show for all these incredible insights!
Key Points From This Episode:
- Using the work you do for networking and connecting.
- Getting more mileage out of your efforts.
- Simple ideas on how you can build you email list.
- Thinking of other ways to market and promote your work.
- Helping an author is almost always meaningful to them.
- What sort of messages to put where, on your website.
- Positioning and information in an author update email.
- Website redirects and understanding the basics of SEO.
- Using pop ups on your website.
- And much more!
Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode:
Tim Grahl — https://booklaunch.com/
Tim on Twitter — https://twitter.com/timgrahl
Valerie Francis — https://valeriefrancis.ca/
Valerie on Twitter — https://twitter.com/valerie_francis
The Story Grid Editor Roundtable Podcast — https://valeriefrancis.ca/podcast/
Running Down a Dream — https://www.amazon.com/Running-Down-Dream-Winning-Creative/dp/1936891557
The Punisher — https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5675620/
The Husband’s Secret — https://www.amazon.com/Husbands-Secret-Liane-Moriarty-ebook/dp/B00D7Z4GQY
Liane Moriarty — https://lianemoriarty.com.au
Nine Perfect Strangers — https://www.amazon.com/Nine-Perfect-Strangers-Liane-Moriarty-ebook/dp/B07C75GRLY
Joe Rogan — https://www.joerogan.com
AWeber — https://www.aweber.com
Ryan Holiday — https://ryanholiday.net
Sumo — https://sumo.com
[0:00:01.1] TG: Hello and welcome to the Book Launch Show. I am Tim Grahl. This week, we never actually got to the thing that Valerie wanted to talk about because we got off on a whole other tangent that I think is really important because for me, I’ve been doing this now for over 10 years, I was really fascinated by marketing even before I did it professionally. I think this way automatically.
Whenever I see a problem, I think of it from a marketing standpoint. I’ve noticed this thing where if somebody’s really good at something and they really love it, they naturally think it’s like the most important thing in the world. You know, my Jiu Jitsu coach thinks that every single person on the planet should be doing Jiu Jitsu.
I feel like that with marketing is like, marketing is super important, I look at the world in terms of marketing, I kind of filter everything through marketing and so when Valerie started talking about something right off the bat, I started seeing new marketing angles and that’s one of the things that I hope you’re getting out of listening to this podcast is the fact that there’s lots of different things that you can do and hopefully you can start seeing opportunities in places that you haven’t seen them otherwise. That’s a big part of doing this show and I think you get a little bit of that in this episode.
This podcast is all about marketing, launching your book. But if you’re an author and you have a book, book coming out, book already out, you’re doing something special, you’re doing something that most people are afraid to do in my opinion. They’re actually going after that thing that they want. Everybody says they want to write a book, you’ve actually done it, you’re actually doing it, what that means is that you have a dream that you’re trying to accomplish.
You have this idea, the kind of writer you want to be, the kind of life you want to live, the kind of artist you want to be. I wrote my book Running Down a Dream, your roadmap to winning creative battles for people just like you.
Based on my last decade of overcoming my creative battles of being stuck in the mud, stuck feeling like I’m always going to be a failure, stuff feeling like this thing that I want is stupid and never going to happen. I wrote this book to share the true journey of what this looks like, a lot of self-help books, a lot of books about creativity, they kind of share, what was really hard and then look at all the awesome stuff I learned?
This book is different, it will walk you through what I think the real story of running down a dream really looks like. I put everything in there and on top of that, I put the tools I learned along the way. If you know anything about me and my work, you know I can’t help but be practical.
I took that story off running down my dream of chasing what I wanted in life of overcoming creative battles and I broke it down into really practical tools that you can apply to overcome your own creative demons.
Running Down a Dream is out now to Amazon and all the other different places that you can buy books. It’s available, audiobook, e-book and paperback. Check it out, buy a copy, share it with a friend and it’s a great way to support this show, thanks.
[0:03:32.0] ANNOUNCER: Welcome to the Book Launch Podcast, helping authors launch and market their books.
[0:03:41.9] VF: We are back from Nashville, how do you feel, you exhausted?
[0:03:46.4] TG: I’m recovered now, we’ve had a few days, I was you know, if you had asked me Friday night, I was like, I feel great, stayed up, finished the second season of The Punisher and then I slept so hard that when Connor, my 13 year old woke me up because we had to go in the morning, I didn’t know who he was for like half a second and was like freaked out.
Yeah, it was – I slept really hard over the weekend but hit the ground running first of the week so it was good. It was such a good event, it was really fun.
[0:04:21.0] VF: We have recovered from our Story Grid hangover.
[0:04:23.8] TG: That’s right, back to marketing.
[0:04:26.1] VF: Back to marketing. All good things must come to an end. Okay, last week, obviously, I didn’t do a big lot because I was in Nashville. But since I’ve been back, the one thing that I really wanted to get done since the first of the month just happened was to get the first, I keep wanting to say an episode but the first email for my book club out to my subscribers.
I did that and I also have it up on my website, so those are two wins in my favor.
[0:05:00.7] TG: Great.
[0:05:01.7] VF: The book club stuff will go out on the first of the month and then my author update stuff will go out on the 15th of the month because it’s easier for me to remember the first and the 15th and having a book club come out on the first just kind of makes sense to me.
[0:05:14.9] TG: What’s the first book in the book club?
[0:05:17.6] VF: The Husband’s Secret by Liane Moriarty.
[0:05:19.7] TG: Okay, I’ve read a couple of hers but not that one. Is that her new one?
[0:05:24.9] VF: No, that’s actually an old one, her new one is nine perfect strangers, it’s actually an older one and one of the things I said in my post is that you know, even though it’s not the one, her big break out, one that everyone knows her for, it’s a really nice story and I wouldn’t want it to get lost in the shuffle of everyone talking about Big Little Lies and you know, all the new ones coming out. That’s why I did it.
[0:05:52.1] TG: Can I give you a couple of things to think about?
[0:05:53.7] VF: Yeah.
[0:05:54.5] TG: All right, one is, I would try to let her know that you picked her book for your book club this week or this month. I would ping her on Twitter, ping her on Instagram, maybe even send her one of those old fashioned emails and just let her know, say, you know, with no expectation of a response but just say, you know, “I’m a fan, I’ve started a book club, yours is the first book that I’ve picked,” you know, something like that.
Because one of the ways to connect with – because we always want – I don’t know how much we’ve talked about this but I’m always looking for okay, I’m doing one thing, what if I add just a little bit to it and I can turn it into two things and if I add a little bit more to it, I can turn it in to three things. I don’t have to come up with three different things. I use one thing in three different ways.
In this case, you’re always trying to do outreach, you’re always trying to connect with influencers. Well, when we talked through how to connect with influencers, we’re focused on okay, what is an influencer? Put ourselves in their shoes, what do they want out of the world and how can I help them get it?
Well, whatever the author wants is for somebody to help sell their books and so of course, you running her book in your book club won’t even be a blip on the radar for her but it’s still might get her attention because anybody who is not just buying the book but getting other people to buy the book is meaningful.
I would just ping her. Every month, when you pick the book and put it on your website, I would reach out to whoever the author is just to let them know.
[0:07:44.4] VF: Okay.
[0:07:46.5] TG: Worst case scenario they ignore it but best case scenario, it opens up a line of communication with an author that could turn into a long term relationship.
[0:07:58.6] VF: Okay, that would be a nice thing.
[0:08:01.3] TG: Yeah, that’s one thing. So you’re already doing the book club, now each month you just add on to your little list of things to do, reach out to the author and let them know, right? That’s maybe five to 10 minutes worth of work to turn one thing into two things.
Now, let’s turn it into a third thing. The people on your email list are going to be part of the book club and so that means people that are fans of The Husband’s Secret would probably be interested in being in your book club and would probably be interested in future books that you pick.
I would Google around to find people that have reviewed and put blog posts up or done it in their own book club and just look for opportunities where you can invite people in to be part of your book club that you know are already fans of Liane Moriarty.
[0:09:00.6] VF: Okay.
[0:09:01.2] TG: Same thing with, you could run a search on Twitter for The Husband’s Secret, Liane Moriarty, you know, try lots, maybe even her most recent and then anybody that like is gushing about the book and has more than 5,000 followers just say, just @ them and say, “Hey, I’m a big fan of hers too, in fact I have picture booked for my book club this month, you can see it here.” And maybe they’ll join your book club. The reason why you want to set a threshold for the amount of followers is you don’t –
An inefficient way to get book club members would be to one at a time invite them but if you’re one at a time inviting influencers to be a part of your book club, that’s different.
[0:09:48.4] VF: Okay, makes sense.
[0:09:51.8] TG: You know, don’t kill yourself, set a timer for 30 minutes and just see how much you can get done in 30 minutes but this would be an opportunity to find — to attract people in and you have to understand to always treat this book club as if it is a big deal with a lot of members because people don’t know otherwise, you know what I mean?
When you reach out to Liane Moriarty, don’t be like, you know, “I’m just starting this, I only have five people but I picked your book for my book club.” Be like, “I’m running a book club for my entire email list and every month, we’re going to pick a book and we’re all going to read it together.”
Don’t minimize what you’re doing, people tend to do that and so you don’t’ oversell it, you don’t’ be like, “I have 10,000 subscribers,” when you don’t. But you also don’t – I always like to say, you don’t have to, one, you don’t have to answer questions just because people ask.
Two is, you don’t have to give out information when nobody’s asked for it. When I see people do this stuff, they often, or feel a little embarrassed so they start minimizing before they even got asked a question. As far as she knows, you’re a fan, you have a group of people that you’re promoting her book to, she should pay attention to that.
[0:11:17.1] VF: Okay.
[0:11:18.8] TG: That’s it. I mean, it’s not a big deal. I’m just always, it’s kind of like when we talked about the book club when I was like yeah, when you come out with your book, your book will be — right? It’s always looking at, I’m already doing one thing, how can I use it to do other things and not have to like spin up something new every time, does that make sense?
[0:11:42.3] VF: Yeah, it makes complete sense. My brain just doesn’t work quite that way yet which is why I keep talking to you ever week.
[0:11:48.6] TG: Yeah. I mean, this is how, honestly, this is how people when you look at everything people are doing and they’re getting so much done, you’re like, how are they getting it so much done? It’s because anytime they spend time on something, they try to leverage it as much as possible, right? The example that’s in my head is Joe Rogan and his podcast.
He streams every podcast live, video on YouTube when he does it which gets him lots of viewers and ad revenue. Then, he takes the audio and he post it as a podcast episode which then he runs ads on. He only had to do the interview once and he’s already making two streams of ad revenue and then what he does is he takes the video and he cuts it up into like five to 15 minute segments and he’ll post those up with like real click bait-y titles of the video. Those get him ad revenue as well.
You have – he sits down and does one interview and creates three streams of income off of it. And each of those, now he doesn’t do it, he has a producer that does it but each of those is not that much more work than just doing the thing is the work. Turning it into an audio podcast is just a little bit more work, cutting it up into pieces is just a little bit more work.
I’m always looking at okay, if I’m going to put effort into doing something, how can I get — with just a little bit more work, get something else out of it?
[0:13:25.0] VF: Right. For me, for the book club, the only really time consuming thing is reading the book and I’m doing that anyway. I was doing that before. In terms of adding to what’s on my list of things to do. You know, now that I have a template setup in AWeber, I just use it every month. Right now that I have everything setup on my blog post, my website, I just use that every month.
That’s not a lot of extra time or effort, plus it’s just fun, right? You know, like I sent it out, and within 24 hours, I had a whole bunch of comments from people. Some people who are you know, other story grid editors or people who are listening to this podcast anyways, they knew what I was doing. When it came out, they thought, “This is what she’s talking about, this is great.”
Some who are just friends and are not writers and they’re not listening to this podcast but they thought it was a wonderful idea because they’re always looking for their next read and when they replied, they told me a couple of their favorite books, which is fantastic.
[0:14:31.4] TG: Yeah.
[0:14:33.4] VF: I’ve got my TVR pile is getting really big. But that’s fine, that’s never a problem for someone like me.
[0:14:40.8] TG: Yeah, Ryan Holiday built an enormous email list just on book recommendations.
[0:14:47.7] VF: Did he?
[0:14:50.4] TG: Once a month, he sends out a list of the books that he read that month with just a little two or three sentence paragraph underneath and he built most of the email list just off – he has two email list, he has his normal email list but then he has a monthly reader list and that monthly reader list was his first list and he grew it, it was huge, just off of sending out monthly book recommendations.
[0:15:18.6] VF: Wow.
[0:15:18.8] TG: Then now let’s look at that example, right? He built an email list off of, he was already reading the books. Now, he spends a little bit of time writing an email once a month, talking about the books that he’s already read. Then, he puts affiliate links on each of those so he makes a little bit of Amazon money off of the email that he was already writing anyway, and then, he promotes that everywhere he goes to build his email list.
He’s already reading the books and now it’s not an insignificant amount of work but it’s just – it’s like maybe 20% more time than what he’s doing, spending, reading the books anyway and so, he’s getting all of these other things off of it.
[0:16:02.4] VF: So his return is significant?
[0:16:04.5] TG: Exactly, that is the thing is like if you are going to do something like how can we leverage to get – again, I am always looking out from several different angles. I mean you could look at this podcast this way, right?
So my entire workload for this podcast is what I am doing right now and as soon as we are off, I will record the intro and outro, I send them to you, I am done. I did 40 minutes of work. So then you take it, you get it edited but you put it up on my website as a blog post with the transcript.
So now I got a blog post out of it too, plus I have a whole new way to promote stuff that I want to promote. So if I want to promote my book, if I am doing a mastermind, if I am doing a new course, whatever it is, it is now a stream I have with people that I could promote that stuff too and so I am doing one thing that takes 40 minutes a week and I am getting all of this other stuff out of it and I am always looking at how could I even use it to do different things.
Could I repackage this as an audio course later? You know who knows but it’s always thinking like I already did the work or I am already doing the work, if I just do a little bit more what could I do. And I like to look at it for the way that is we’re thinking is if we are thinking about permission content and outreach, if I am doing something that is content related, can I also turn it into outreach and vice-versa.
[0:17:42.8] VF: Okay, it is going to take me a while to get my brain thinking along those lines but that’s okay. I can learn, I can be taught.
[0:17:51.4] TG: Really to me the central thing here is empathy. Like it is thinking who would be excited about this, who would feel good about this, who would really want to know about this and to me the first person that comes to mind is Liane Moriarty like somebody is actively promoting her book and trying to get people to buy it on her behalf like as an author, I would like to know if somebody is doing that for one of my books, you know?
That is meaningful to me and that means I now like that person because before I ever heard of them they were helping me. They didn’t start out by asking me for a favor. I don’t think that was your actual question for this week but I just spent half the episode talking about it too.
[0:18:38.3] VF: Well that is okay because something else interesting happened as a result of me sending that book club notice out. Within the first 24 hours I had two authors pitch me their books. So suddenly, you know I have been researching podcast and what not.
So suddenly I was on the other side of that conversation and I thought, “Yeah I can really see why it’s important,” I mean I saw it before but it really drove it home for me, why it’s important for someone who’s pitching an idea to really do their homework and look at their overlap in the Venn diagrams.
So when I go to podcast, what is it that I am doing that would be of interest to their listeners? Where is the overlap? So that I can pitch that properly and do the work for the podcast producers.
So I thought that was interesting and while I am not averse to doing that, for me for the book club, the point is that these are books that I love and I genuinely recommend. They are not paid placements or anything like that.
So I wondered and I haven’t really fully thought this through. But I wonder that maybe on my contact page I would put a little line or two of texts just something to the effect of, “If you send me your book it doesn’t mean I will recommend it or even necessarily read it.”
[0:20:05.1] TG: This is where I try not to make policy decisions based on something happening once or twice. I think if you just have a canned email that you responded like, “Hey, this is how I handle this. Thank you so much for reaching out.” Because if you put it on your website that means every single person that wants to contact you will see that and that is a negative message.
It is like when you go into the gas station and they have this big sign on the door. That says, “No shirt, no shoes, no service.” And I am like, “Are you really having so many people come in here without their shirt and shoes on that you have to put a big ass sign on your front door that every customer…” That is a negative message. That is not a positive message.
So now me as a customer who would never think to walk into your establishment without shirts and shoes on has to deal with a negative comment. So I try to always – unless I am getting flooded with emails that I need to keep at bay, I would just on your side just have a canned response.
You know, in Gmail you could do those canned responses where you write the email once and just send it to everybody. Because let us say three years down the road, you have built an email list of 50,000 people around this book club, maybe you start selling advertising spots. Like, “This month I pick this book. Here is two other people that have paid to put my book in my email.”
And now you have a whole other revenue stream, you know? So I also just try to always keep things open because you never know where things are going to go and maybe you do want people pitching you their book so you could respond and say, “Hey you can buy one of this paid sponsorships. It is $500 this month for you to be one of the two sponsored books.”
[0:21:58.4] VF: Well I don’t even see it as a problem to be honest although I totally see where you are coming from. When I got the emails I went, “Hey, they opened my email and they think that this book club is the place for them to be.” I am like, “Hey look at that, I am an influencer.”
[0:22:16.2] TG: Yeah for sure.
[0:22:19.2] VF: Anyway, so that was interesting because suddenly I was on the other side of the table and I thought, “Oh yeah, I can totally see why it is so important for the person who is pitching to really make sure you pitch the thing that you want in a way that makes sense for the person who is receiving your request.”
So now that that’s done and I’m – well not done but now that at least my book club has launched and is underway, I am looking ahead to the author update email. Which will come out on the 15th and I am just trying to think exactly what I will put in it, what it would look like and how I will position and all that good stuff. So that is tomorrow’s job.
Do you have any thoughts, advice, wisdom, guidance as I embarked on that one?
[0:23:09.2] TG: Well I think of this as people are on the list because they are fans of yours in sub-capacity and your list might be a little different because you are kind of as most people do, finding their way as they are building the initial list. So some people may not be interested in the direction you are going or wherever but I just think of it as this – assume the people on your list or fans of you and your writing and you want to just give them an update on the last month in regards to that.
So I would give an update on where you are at with your latest book, when they can expect to see it. One of the favorite things you wrote about the book, you could mention the fact that you spent a week in Nashville with a bunch of other story nerds and learned a whole new stuff about story. You could remind people about the book club and how much love Liane Moriarty and why you picked the book. To me it is what has happened in the last month related to you and your writing.
That fans of you might be interested in knowing about. This is where if you were on a podcast, make sure they know that, “Hey, you can listen to me on a podcast here and link to it, that kind of stuff. So they could be short, you know two or three things. Maybe if you got a nice note from somebody that read your book include that. You know, “Hey, from reader, Sam, here is what he said.”
Or maybe a most recent Amazon review. Anything that’s happened around you and your writing in the last month that again, fans of yours would like to know. So let us say that you were on – we are just going to keep using her since we are talking about, you are on Liane Moriarty’s email list and she sent you an email like, “Hey, here is two places you can listen to interviews with me. Here is one of the coolest emails I got from a fan this month and I am a third of the way through my next novel. By the way, I am going to be at these two conferences over the next month if you’d like to come see me.”
That is an interesting email as a fan of Liane Moriarty. So that’s what I always try to get authors to do is put themselves in the fan’s seat and write something that you would want to get if you were a fan of yourself, does that make sense?
[0:25:43.1] VF: It does.
[0:25:44.3] TG: And I mean part of that is like, “Here is the books I am reading,” I mean it could be anything. I really try to keep to draw a line of like this isn’t about like, “Hey, you know my garden is coming in really nice this spring.” It is not personal it’s still about you and your business but anything in that sphere that fans of yours might be interested in.
[0:26:10.1] VF: Okay, I’ll see what I can come up with.
[0:26:14.2] TG: Yeah.
[0:26:15.2] VF: I’m finally getting around to, while we’re still talking about the website, I’m finally getting around to putting in those 301 redirects that you told me about many moons ago so that anyone looking for Robin St. Croix will be automatically redirected to Valerie Francis.
A question on that, when I finish setting that up, do I take down the Robin St. Croix site, do I make it like not searchable or something somehow, I don’t even have the – I don’t even know how to ask this question.
[0:26:46.8] TG: It doesn’t really matter. A 301 redirect does two things. First of all, somebody tries to visit that page, it automatically kicks them over to the new page. It also does the same thing for search engines. Where you know, if Google comes, if Google’s crawling your site and they run into a 301, they’re like, this page isn’t here anymore, it’s over here.
A 301, it’s a permanent redirect. I think it’s a 302 for the tech nerds that are listening, please don’t rake me over the coals. But a 302 redirect I think is a nonpermanent, it’s like if you temporarily move a page. But a 301 redirect is telling Google, this page has permanently moved over here.
It’s almost like – have you ever seen where like a house got torn down except for the door frame, the front door. That’s basically what this is. The 301 is if somebody comes to your door and you’re like, I don’t live here anymore, I live over there, it doesn’t really matter if the house is still standing or not. They’re not going to get past that door.
[0:27:56.5] VF: Okay. Does that work if someone just googles the title of the book or the name Robin St. Croix?
[0:28:04.0] TG: Yeah, it will all again, I’m like, moderately understanding SEO and it’s changing all the time. It’ll take like four to eight weeks for Google to change and start pointing to the new site but it doesn’t matter because if somebody Googles Robin St. Croix and it brings up the old site and they click on it, it still will redirect them but it will take a while for the Google search results to show the new URL.
[0:28:30.3] VF: Okay, I don’t need to – because when I was setting it up, it was very easy to say okay, this page goes to this page. My Robin St. Croix home page, now go to the Valerie Francis home page. But I wasn’t sure about just the general search term, but yeah.
I don’t have to setup a separate redirect for the general search term of Robin St. Croix.
[0:28:51.8] TG: Right now, I just googled it and robinstcroix.com came up and if I click on it, see, I still get to the site. You haven’t set them up yet?
[0:29:00.8] VF: Well, I did but they weren’t working. I just did it before we got on the podcast, so I didn’t have a chance to even troubleshoot yet.
[0:29:07.6] TG: Okay.
[0:29:07.8] VF: There’s always like a box somewhere that you forgot to tick, right? This is always what it comes down to.
[0:29:14.3] TG: Right now, your robinstcroix.com is the first result and the fifth result is your valeriefrancis.ca/robinstcroix. What will happen is that, instead of having two results, you will have one and that one will probably become number one.
[0:29:34.2] VF: Okay. Just have to go back and get those working properly. Whatever I did, I don’t know. Websites are the gift that just keeps giving, Tim.
[0:29:43.0] TG: Yeah. I’ve been screwing around with a different one for myself and it’s like, this is a pain in the ass, this is why people complain about this.
[0:29:54.3] VF: Yes. Well, I just want everyone to commensurate with me, that’s all. Miserably loves company.
[0:30:01.4] TG: I understand.
[0:30:02.6] VF: Yeah, I wonder about website designers, they’re a special breed. Those guys and proctologists, I don’t understand those guys either.
Anyway, moving on. I don’t have popups on my site, now there’s a bazillion places on the site to sign up for the downloading Masquerade Part One. Now that I have this book club thing. Is it over kill to have a popup?
Even just something subtle in the bottom right hand corner or just leave –
[0:30:31.3] TG: I would totally do that.
[0:30:32.7] VF: Yeah? Put a pop up on?
[0:30:35.3] TG: Yeah, you could do the bottom right hand corner, you could also do the bar across the top and I would just use Sumo for this. It’s the best tool, I think it’s sumo.com now and it’s a free tool that you can put it on your website and start getting people to sign up. Yeah, do something like join my monthly book club for women or whatever.
Put your email address in here, I for sure would do that, it just – they just work. I mean, it just works. You’ll always see a spike in signups when you do that.
[0:31:12.3] VF: Okay, I’ll do that. We didn’t actually get to the topic I wanted to talk to about today but we’ll do that next week I guess.
[0:31:19.4] TG: Okay, that sounds good.
[0:31:21.7] VF: All right, thank you so much Tim.
[0:31:23.9] TG: Thanks Valerie.
[END OF EPISODE]
[0:31:25.4] TG: Thanks for listening to this episode of the Book Launch Show. For all the past episodes, the show notes, or to connect with me, you can go to booklaunchshow.com. I have dozens of free book marketing resources and articles that you can access at my website booklaunch.com. Lastly, if you like to support the show, you can do that by telling another author about the show and by visiting us on Apple Podcast and leaving a rating and review.
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April 6, 2019